Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Report problems, bugs, etc.
Forum rules
Please be specific when reporting bugs and be able to reproduce them.
If you don't, the post will most likely be ignored or deleted.
Post Reply
PeteFine
Super Man
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Contact:

Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Post by PeteFine »

Here is the original measure:
11.png
11.png (15.38 KiB) Viewed 211 times
I use "Notes/Transpose/ down a second" and get this:
12.png
12.png (12.76 KiB) Viewed 211 times
I end up with incorrect transposition as the second note, C#, should be a B natural, not a B#. Try it. Score attached.

I should add that if I lasso the notes and use the arrow key to move them down 2 pitches it does so correctly. However (as posted in a previous post) I cannot transpose a large score this way because OV crashes. There seems to be a note limit that OV can handle using the arrow keys. So I am stuck trying to transpose this part.
Attachments
Symphony No. 6 Mvt I Revised - 2 Clarinets in Bb.ovex
(128.03 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
Merv
Super User
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:18 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Post by Merv »

Pete, in regard to those 3 notes in question…

If you transpose them down a chromatic major second you will find that it works. If you select all by double clicking, then do that same transpose it will also work. If you hit your ‘Transpose Score’ button on your Control Bar it will also work for the part.

Your large score will probably need to be done in bite sized chunks (measured sections) if you’re planning on moving everything down. Why not hit the ‘Show Transpose Score’ button?
PeteFine
Super Man
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Contact:

Re: Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Post by PeteFine »

Interesting that "chromatic" works and "diatonic" does not, given that a major second transposition, by definition, changes the notes by a whole step and the correct accidentals should be there in any case. Thank you for information as to OV's workings. I appreciate it.
User avatar
ronnb
Super User
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:07 am
Location: Global

Re: Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Post by ronnb »

PeteFine wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:45 pm Interesting that "chromatic" works and "diatonic" does not, given that a major second transposition, by definition, changes the notes by a whole step and the correct accidentals should be there in any case. Thank you for information as to OV's workings. I appreciate it.
Oddly enough, I've long used the chromatic transposition because it works better than diatonic transposition.
I always check to see if accidentals have been left off too because of irregularities in transposition.
TenorAlan
Super User
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:28 am

Re: Accidentals Wrong after Transpose

Post by TenorAlan »

In fact, diatonic transposition is not defined if the material being transposed does not wholly consist of notes from the scale of the key in effect - that is, if there are any accidentals in that material.

A little exercise will show why that is so. Imagine we are working in the key of C, and have this passage we wish to transpose, diatonically, up by one step (that is, by a second):

C D D# E F

After a one step diatonic transposition:

C should become D
D should become E
D# - wait for it
E should become F
F should become G

What should D# become? Well, it would have to have a pitch between the original D (now E) and the original E (now F). But there is no pitch between E and F that this note can now properly take on.

Which is why there is no such thing as diatonic transposition for that set of notes.

So it is very hard to say, if we have a set of notes including accidentals, and we ask Overture to transpose it diatonically, that Overture has not done it properly.

Alan
Post Reply