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 Post subject: Fermata MIDI exporting
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:36 am 
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God of XML

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:59 am
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As I recall, pause time at Fermata dialogue box is not exported into the MIDI file. Of course, MIDI standard doesn't have Pause function. But pause is very important when MIDI is replayed.
I hope Overture will automatically convert Pause time to Tempo or Rest (with adding one measure) when MIDI files are exported. Perhaps we can get better plan in order to make pause effective in exported MIDI. Any idea?

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Tatsu Nagao
Overture 5, Cubase 7, Studio One 2 Pro
Windows 7 x64, i7 2600K (@4.4GHz), 16GB RAM, audient iD22, ADAM A7X


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Overture actually uses its own tempo control during playback of fermatas. A magnified view of the Graphic window during playback will show the cursor slowly moving at the pause point.
The tempo might be so slow that it is outside of the bounds for standard midi file export. Overture sets a limit of 10bpm but Cakewalk ProAudio allows 8bpm.

From a post several years back I came up with 4.8 clocks at 6bpm (beat=qtrnote) for each 1/10 of second "pause".

I'm not sure what the MIDI standard is for slowest allowable tempo.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:29 am 
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God of XML

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JohnD wrote:
From a post several years back I came up with 4.8 clocks at 6bpm (beat=qtrnote) for each 1/10 of second "pause".

I'm not sure what the MIDI standard is for slowest allowable tempo.


John, thank you.
This is very difficult for my brain. :lol:
A qtrnote has 480 clocks, and 1/100 qtrnote equals 4.8 clock, right?
At 6bpm, a qtrnote has 10 seconds length, right?
So, 4.8 clocks has 1/10 sec length at 6bpm. Oh, maybe I understood just now.

Then, for example I can make a maximum of 5.5sec pause by using tempo change at tempo 120bpm.
a. 480clocks at 120bpm has 0.5sec. (60/120=0.5)
b. 480clocks at 10bpm has 6.0sec. (60/10=6.0)
When I use very slow tempo like 40bpm, I can make 4.5sec pause at a maximum.

But, I often use fermata as silent pause without entering any rest, so I have only 96clocks silence when I set 80% as the note's duration.
c. 96clocks at 120bpm has 0.1sec.
d. 96clocks at 10bpm has 1.2sec.
In this case, I can make only 1.1sec silent pause, but this is no-nonsense. I suppose those automatic function would be implementable.

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Tatsu Nagao
Overture 5, Cubase 7, Studio One 2 Pro
Windows 7 x64, i7 2600K (@4.4GHz), 16GB RAM, audient iD22, ADAM A7X


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Sorry Tatsu, either I got the speed wrong at the time or the speed of fermatas have been drastically reduced since then. Testing a set of 128th notes with a fermata against an outside metronome showed a rate of about 40 bpm (128th=beat), which for quarter notes would be a glacial 1.25 bpm.

I found some information on the Standard MIDI format which identifies a tempo event in hexadecimal as FF 51 03 xx xx xx where the x's are the hex value of the tempo in microseconds (1/1,000,000sec) per quarter note.

For 1.25 qtr/min tempo, that came out to a hex value greater than the allowed 6 places in hex (2DC6C00), so I guess a midi file cannot move that slowly.

Working backwards from a maximum value of FF FF FF gives:
FF FF FF = 16,777,215 microseconds (decimal)
divide by 1 million = 16.777215 seconds
divide by 60 = 0.27962025 min (per quarter note)
Finally, 1/x flips it to 3.576 qtr per min

So the slowest speed in a midi file(3.6bpm) is almost three times as fast as Overture's fermata speed(1.25bpm).

Windows Media Player accepted a midi file that I edited in a hex editor (changing the tempo value to FF FF FF) but if the midi file is imported in Cakewalk, Overture, etc, it forces the speed up to its own minimum: 8 or 10bpm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:16 pm 
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God of XML

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:59 am
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Thank you very much for deep study, JohnD

Even if the minimum bpm is 3.6 or 10 under standard MIDI or Overture specification, I suppose "Silent pause by changing tempo" function would be worth. When I want to make longer silent pause than 1.2sec (96clocks at 10bpm), I can make the note duration smaller than 80%, and then silent time will become longer.

I often edit tempo in Cubase in order to reproduce pause after I imported MIDI from Overture all the time. Those procedures are not gladsome at all. I hope Overture will have Silent pasue option (temporal tempo down at silent clocks).

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Tatsu Nagao
Overture 5, Cubase 7, Studio One 2 Pro
Windows 7 x64, i7 2600K (@4.4GHz), 16GB RAM, audient iD22, ADAM A7X


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