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 Post subject: [Solved]Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:28 am 
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Hello,

Because I dislike how slurs are drawn in Overture, I did a little comparison with other notation programs.
These are not exhaustive examples, but if there would be a way to reduce the slur curve it will look better.
In terms of engravment, the first bar is a good example why it looks unprofessional imo: the curve is too large (we can easily find other examples with other notes position and duration)
There are already available parameters to tweak slurs in Engraver > Symbols panel, but none to change the curve of a slur (if it exists I didn't find it).
Basically slurs notation could be improve just by reducing their curves if it could be possible with an automatic new value (+ the ability to change it manually as it is already possible with other few slur parameters).

nb: of course we can change the curve by dragging manually the slur handles, but we can't imagine to do it for all slurs in a score.

Attachment:
slurs.jpg
slurs.jpg [ 32.62 KiB | Viewed 302 times ]


edit 2 : Dorico example added

Attachment:
slurs_3.jpg
slurs_3.jpg [ 15.28 KiB | Viewed 278 times ]


edit 1: below another example, done with a tie and a slur.

Attachment:
slurs_2.jpg
slurs_2.jpg [ 12.1 KiB | Viewed 299 times ]

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Stéphane.

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Last edited by tharos on Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:35 am 
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Hi Stephane,
Your observation is very welcome. The slurs in Overture are problematic and we have to make them look properly slur, by slur.
I did the same comparison test - Overture vs. Sibelius.
In Sibelius they look fine, on their proper places, good default curve and fatter.
Well, after all Sibelius is much more advanced in terms of Engraving and notation publishing.
Would be great if this can be fixed for the upcoming update.

One more issue I have found in this comparison is the default spacing on note entering. In Overture the notes
take much more space than in Sibelius. This is also important side of any score editing program.

Probably the next major step in development of Overture will be the Engraving and Publishing?!
Both areas are the most important for the people who use notation software.

Best regards,
Nordland


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 Post subject: Re: Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:43 am 
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Location: Hallowell Maine USA
Thanks for posting.
Were you around when one of the members posted a poll? I don't know how much that will have with future development in regards to engraving – but I think we were in second place, regrettably. I don't find that poll official, though and may be sonic scores will help improve slur capabilities. For what it's worth – about two years ago the slurs were even more out of sync – sort of speak :-)

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Windows 10 (most recent)
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ASO, VSL, Kontakt 5,Garritan
Overture 5, Finale V. 26


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 Post subject: Re: Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 am 
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Dorico example added : see first post (edit 2)

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 Post subject: Re: Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:33 am 
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Well the good news I was already working on this, so it will be in the next update.
Newly entered slurs look like this in the next update.
To set current slurs to the new placement in an existing score, select the slurs using the filter, and flip them twice.
Set The thickness to .2 in the Engraving panel to get this exact look.
Attachment:
Slurs.png
Slurs.png [ 12.85 KiB | Viewed 245 times ]

Personally I think they look better than all of the competition, including Dorico.

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 Post subject: Re: Slurs notation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:37 am 
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Ho very good news Don! Can't wait now :D

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Stéphane.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:14 am 
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:D

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:21 am 
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hey don,
you said;
To set current slurs to the new placement in an existing score, select the slurs using the filter, and flip them twice.
Set The thickness to .2 in the Engraving panel to get this exact look.

Is that what we can do now or wait for the next update?

I did try what said, but without luck. Maybe next update..?
thanks again,
jj

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Windows 10 (most recent)
Komplete Audio 6
ASO, VSL, Kontakt 5,Garritan
Overture 5, Finale V. 26


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:26 am 
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"so it will be in the next update."

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am 
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Hello Don

May I suggest to check if this example works fine with the new slurs implementation you've done

1. add slur from a grace note
2. flip the slur

the top end of the slur is not correct with the latest available overture version

Attachment:
OV_slur.gif
OV_slur.gif [ 47.13 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]



This example comes from Johann Strauss 's The Blue Danube Waltz

original score:

Attachment:
OV5_slur.jpg
OV5_slur.jpg [ 16.44 KiB | Viewed 131 times ]


Thank you

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:05 am 
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Don wrote:
Well the good news I was already working on this, so it will be in the next update.
Newly entered slurs look like this in the next update.
To set current slurs to the new placement in an existing score, select the slurs using the filter, and flip them twice.
Set The thickness to .2 in the Engraving panel to get this exact look.
Attachment:
Slurs.png

Personally I think they look better than all of the competition, including Dorico.


Hi Don,
Thank you for the new slurs. They look really fantastic. Congratulations!
I have two questions related to them:

1. How they will deal with added articulations added before the slur, and after the slur?
2. Is there will be a way for automatic fixing of the slurs in already created projects?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Nordland


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Quote:
To set current slurs to the new placement in an existing score, select the slurs using the filter, and flip them twice.
Set The thickness to .2 in the Engraving panel to get this exact look.


Articulations are taken into account, but probably not as much as Sibelius and Dorico.
The slur readjusts when articulations are flipped, dragged, inserted and deleted.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:01 pm 
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Don wrote:
Quote:
To set current slurs to the new placement in an existing score, select the slurs using the filter, and flip them twice.
Set The thickness to .2 in the Engraving panel to get this exact look.


Articulations are taken into account, but probably not as much as Sibelius and Dorico.


Hi Don,
That's awesome! Thank you very much for the slur improvement!
About the articulations, if you need more time to make them on the level of Sibelius and Dorico,
Me, and probably all of us wouldn't mind to wait until they are ready.
It is always better to wait a little bit more in order to get something better. :-)

Thank you very much for all you are doing!

Best regards,
Nordland


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