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 Post subject: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:18 pm 
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God of Transposition
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:08 am
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Location: Franklin IN
Hi, everyone...
Since there has been some discussion of transpositions here lately, I thought I'd resurrect a "transposition primer" that lays out a brief history of transposition, the logic behind transposition (it's more than people think!), and some mechanics. I prepared this many years ago for the Garritan Community, but it is still relevant.

Interested parties can go to http://specialmillwork.com/finale-tips- ... on-for.pdf

Snorlax.

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Snorlax. Amateur Radio N9EJR
Live rock, jazz, & classical euphonium at:
http://www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
Yamaha 642-II NEO and Yamaha 321 euphoniums.
Yamaha 621 baritone, blue pBone, Conn 50H trombone


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 6:27 pm
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Hey, S,

Snorlax wrote:
Hi, everyone...
Since there has been some discussion of transpositions here lately, I thought I'd resurrect a "transposition primer" that lays out a brief history of transposition, the logic behind transposition (it's more than people think!), and some mechanics. I prepared this many years ago for the Garritan Community, but it is still relevant.

Interested parties can go to http://specialmillwork.com/finale-tips- ... on-for.pdf

Oh, that is just wonderful. Thank you so much.

Best regards,

Bell


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Hey, S,

Well, it turns out that I had that article, in HTML format. listed in my archives under Info>Music>Transposition>Garritan papers!

I also had in the same place your nice Transposition Guide!

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Bell


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:43 pm 
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God of Transposition
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:08 am
Posts: 1733
Location: Franklin IN
AGBell wrote:
Hey, S,

Well, it turns out that I had that article, in HTML format. listed in my archives under Info>Music>Transposition>Garritan papers!

I also had in the same place your nice Transposition Guide!

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Bell


Great, Bell!! Does the HTML version have the pictures? There were two versions of the instrument list; one had a typo and the other fixed it. You might have the first one. Of course, I'll have to remember where the typo is. At age 67, the mind is the second thing to go.
Does your version have a list of instruments with staves showing notes? I can't recall if that was separate or included!
Jim

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Snorlax. Amateur Radio N9EJR
Live rock, jazz, & classical euphonium at:
http://www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
Yamaha 642-II NEO and Yamaha 321 euphoniums.
Yamaha 621 baritone, blue pBone, Conn 50H trombone


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:57 pm 
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God of Transposition
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Location: Franklin IN
PS--The sobriquet "God of Transposition" was given to me by a former assistant to Don who was a guitarist and had no idea of transposition beyond slapping a capo on the fingerboard, so I laid it all out for him in a marathon phonecall.
Can't slap a capo on a trumpet or sax. 8)

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Snorlax. Amateur Radio N9EJR
Live rock, jazz, & classical euphonium at:
http://www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
Yamaha 642-II NEO and Yamaha 321 euphoniums.
Yamaha 621 baritone, blue pBone, Conn 50H trombone


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 6:27 pm
Posts: 109
Hi, Jim,

Snorlax wrote:
AGBell wrote:
Hey, S,

Well, it turns out that I had that article, in HTML format. listed in my archives under Info>Music>Transposition>Garritan papers!

I also had in the same place your nice Transposition Guide!

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Bell

Great, Bell!! Does the HTML version have the pictures?

Yes, it does. The one of the colliery band reminds me of that great picture, "Brassed Off", with the late Pete Postelthwaite!

Quote:
There were two versions of the instrument list; one had a typo and the other fixed it. You might have the first one. Of course, I'll have to remember where the typo is. At age 67, the mind is the second thing to go.

And at 83 . . .

Quote:
Does your version have a list of instruments with staves showing notes? I can't recall if that was separate or included!

I have that as a separate page, captioned "Transposition Guide" - I must have captured it at the same time (seemingly about 2012).

Best regards,

Bell


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:14 am 
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Location: West Wales, UK
Hi Snorlax

BRILLIANT to see you back on here. Although now holding a Tuba (Eb its a British Brass Band thing) I am a Euph player at heart. So I suppose that validates your theories (FACTS) on British Brass Bands. Although bowing to your superior knowledge etc I will question one assumption. My personal belief about USA Euph players is that the composers/arrangers didn't understand them (their brilliance, superior, God like qualities) and called them BARITONES. Usually giving them chordal parts. Compare Sousa to Alford, some of the greatest marches BUT Alford has the Euph players admiration.

Your piece is absolutely spot on and the warnings are too tame - if you transpose Bass Clef parts the Bass Clef Gremlins WILL get you, so sleep with one eye open.

Once again great to see you back here

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Colin
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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:37 pm
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Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Whew... glad I play the guitar :)

But it took a while for me, in my younger days, to get a handle on orchestral parts..horns, trumpet, etc that were transposed.
I always write my trombone parts in bass clef so I don't have to deal with tenor clef in addition to everything else. I figure trombonists don't mind seeing ledger lines above the staff on a regular basis.
At least none have gotten upset with me yet.

What still twists my brain is when I follow an old score that has Trumpets in F, two types of tubas in different keys, and then throw in an A clarinet... who came up up with this stuff?? Maybe someone should have created staffs with more lines? :)


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:27 pm 
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God of Transposition
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Posts: 1733
Location: Franklin IN
Tuba56 wrote:
My personal belief about USA Euph players is that the composers/arrangers didn't understand them (their brilliance, superior, God like qualities) and called them BARITONES. Usually giving them chordal parts. Compare Sousa to Alford, some of the greatest marches BUT Alford has the Euph players admiration.


Of course you are correct here, Colin. American writing for the euphonium does not hold a candle to British writing for it. My time in Grantham and Aberystwyth convinced me of that. For years America did not have a Philip Sparke, but we now have Eric Ewazen, a wonderful melodist. The band in Grantham was a fourth-section band and finished last at its regional contest in Nottingham when I was there (I couldn't play but I did do their draw!!)
The band in Aber was superb...I had a blow with them for a couple of rehearsals and still remember it fondly after 30 years!
Ble wyt ti'n byw? Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg?
Hwyl...
Jim

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Snorlax. Amateur Radio N9EJR
Live rock, jazz, & classical euphonium at:
http://www.soundcloud.com/jweuph
Yamaha 642-II NEO and Yamaha 321 euphoniums.
Yamaha 621 baritone, blue pBone, Conn 50H trombone


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 6:27 pm
Posts: 109
Hi, Jim,

Snorlax wrote:
Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg?

I mi, na.

But I did dabble with it a number of years ago, when I was transcribing some of Ryan Davies' works.

In fact (with some help from Brian's daughter, Bethan) I even completed the English translation of the last verse of "Pan fo’r Nos yn Hir".

Quote:
Hwyl...

Yn wir!

Best regards,

Bell


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Snorlax - Great, thanks. Now I understand the why and the how.

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 8:37 am
Posts: 52
Location: West Wales, UK
Its made me realise that I transpose without thinking about it (although as you my age is creeping up on me and my fingers and brain are out of sync, one on 12V the other has a flat battery). So I suppose the correct answer is I used to be able to...

I'm a Lancashire lad with a strong BB background. Joining the Army taught me to be a musician and not just a player. After that I just see the grand stave and hear where the instrument sits. I started having to transpose from in head TC to BC on paper, and now its BC to TC.

To add to your history of transposing I was taught that there was two other causes for transposing instruments 1 - making keys/notes/pitch easier for the average player and 2 was the manufacturers trying to make their new valved "BRASS" instruments all the same, as you said it helps people be multi talented (or more re-assignable).

To my grandfathers horror no Welsh I'm afraid, I moved to Pembrokeshire just over 12 months ago.

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Colin
EXPERT
EX = has been
SPERT = a drip under pressure


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:43 am 
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Snorlax - Great, thanks. Now I understand the why and the how.


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:17 pm 
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Thank you for posting this useful guide. Much clearer than others I've seen.


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSPOSITION PRIMER
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:26 am 
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Nice information.


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