Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

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FlorianP
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Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Hi,

I am totally new to Overture (I have been using PreSonus Notion before). Currently I am struggling to set up all the key switches/dynamics mappings and save them for re-use.

I came across the following thread, where using "user presets" (which is unfortunately not documented so far in the manual) was suggested (https://sonicscores.com/forum/viewtopic ... set#p57450).

That works so far, but it seems that all my user presets are saved in the "General MIDI" library. In the dropdown menu there is not any other option so far even though I have seen screenshots on this board where different options (e.g. "Kontakt Factory Library") were available (https://sonicscores.com/forum/viewtopic ... &view=next).

I assume I have to add additional libraries manually? How can I do that?
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FlorianP
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Any ideas? Is somebody having the same issue?
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by TenorAlan »

Hi, Florian,

The "Library" field in that dialog actually selects among Instrument Definition Files (in Overture's collection of those) for which the "device" (e.g., synthesizer or such) in the file header matches the "device" you have chosen. Those files, among other things, define the menu tree of "instruments" that will appear in the Choose Instrument dialog.

Often the General MIDI Instrument Definition File will be offered as a default if no applicable files are found.

Your experience suggests that when you installed a "sample-based software synthesizer" using the Kontakt sample player and some
"library" of samples to be used in that connection, no corresponding Instrument Definition File (which cited that "player" as its "device") was installed.

I do almost no work with sample-based software synthesizers and so I am afraid I can be of little further help here.

Best regards,

Alan
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by PeteFine »

Florian,
I see you show a Kontakt VST3. What library are you using? If it is Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra, be aware that the latest version of Kontakt is VST3 only and will not support Amadeus, which is VST2. I had to install an older version, version 6, and then find the VST file which is called Kontakt.dll and scan it under OV's plugins manager. After doing so, the ASO library showed up in that drop down menu that is currently showing only General Midi.
FlorianP
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

TenorAlan wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:41 am Hi, Florian,

The "Library" field in that dialog actually selects among Instrument Definition Files (in Overture's collection of those) for which the "device" (e.g., synthesizer or such) in the file header matches the "device" you have chosen. Those files, among other things, define the menu tree of "instruments" that will appear in the Choose Instrument dialog.

Often the General MIDI Instrument Definition File will be offered as a default if no applicable files are found.

Your experience suggests that when you installed a "sample-based software synthesizer" using the Kontakt sample player and some
"library" of samples to be used in that connection, no corresponding Instrument Definition File (which cited that "player" as its "device") was installed.

I do almost no work with sample-based software synthesizers and so I am afraid I can be of little further help here.

Best regards,

Alan
Okay, interesting to know! I have Kontakt 6 as well as Vienna Synchron Player installed. I plan to use the Kontakt Factory Library as well as VSL Synchron Prime in Overture as my primary instruments.
So I plan to make some user presets with all key switches and dynamics correctly mapped to my instruments.

I did find the "undocumented option" of how to save user presets. So it seems that there are those "instrument definition files" in addition to that.

-> When do I work with user presets and when with instrument definition files?

-> Do I have to create such a instrument definition file manually? If so, how do I do that?

My problem is, so to speak, that I don't want to create all keyswitch mappings and dynamics again in every new project as costs me a lot of time.
FlorianP
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

PeteFine wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:16 pm Florian,
I see you show a Kontakt VST3. What library are you using? If it is Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra, be aware that the latest version of Kontakt is VST3 only and will not support Amadeus, which is VST2. I had to install an older version, version 6, and then find the VST file which is called Kontakt.dll and scan it under OV's plugins manager. After doing so, the ASO library showed up in that drop down menu that is currently showing only General Midi.
I don't use Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra (yet), but the Kontakt Factory Library as well as VSL Synchron Prime (as well as few other instruments, but those are the "primary ones" so to speak). And it's the Kontakt 6 version.
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

I think I solved the issue:

- The Library files are located under "C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Sound Maps\Plugin Devices"
- Those are simple XML-files with all mappings (key-switches, dynamics)
- There is a file for Kontakt Factory, but it seems to be specific to VST2 (see screenshot)
- I did use the VST3 version of Kontakt, therefore it did not show up in Overture. Now, I use the VST2 version and everything works as expected.
- Interestingly, in this file, the device is named "Kontakt 5" and it worked even though I have Kontakt 6

So I assume that adding some additional XML files for sample libs not present in this folder could be possible as well as changing files if I want another mapping per default (I will try it at least).

Furthermore, I assume that "user presets" are a different approach that one might choose if you don't want another default for the mapping of your instrument, but nevertheless be able to save and re-use customized mappings.
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FlorianP
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

I just realized that in order to map the dynamics to a different MIDI cc param (MIDI cc7 is the default), it is necessary that the controller's name starts with "Volume". Unfortunately, it seems that there is no documentation how to make custom sound maps, so I have to figure a lot of things out by trial and error or searching this forum.

When creating "user presets" the process seems to differ. There is a "Dynamics" XML-Tag for that.
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Dean K.
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by Dean K. »

Yes, what you are saying makes good sense and it sounds like you're on the right track.

Sorry, I can't be of more help with this...I don't use presets or load instruments directly...only trigger them from templates over the server by Overture.

Reading through your earlier posts...I was trying to reason why once you were able to create them properly... why Overture wouldn't be able to recall them again...seemed like it would be a matter of finding the right folder....plus you could save your projects as templates after you set everything up.

I'm curious about your very first picture though, where it says Kontakt Flute...what happens when you drag that "Kontakt Flute" preset onto the score from the library panel? Did you try that? Does it work? Or have you moved on from that now? Was that VST3?

What's also interesting to me is that Overture does work with VST3...otherwise it couldn't work with VEPro:

VEPRO VST3.PNG
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But if you try to load KONTAKT 7 in VEPro...you can't do it yet because "Kontakt 7 is VST3 only and VE Pro does not support VST3"...and yet Overture will work and load VST3. So guess it depends on what VST3...
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FlorianP
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Dean Krommydas wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:47 pm Yes, what you are saying makes good sense and it sounds like you're on the right track.

Sorry, I can't be of more help with this...I don't use presets or load instruments directly...only trigger them from templates over the server by Overture.

Reading through your earlier posts...I was trying to reason why once you were able to create them properly... why Overture wouldn't be able to recall them again...seemed like it would be a matter of finding the right folder....plus you could save your projects as templates after you set everything up.

I'm curious about your very first picture though, where it says Kontakt Flute...what happens when you drag that "Kontakt Flute" preset onto the score from the library panel? Did you try that? Does it work? Or have you moved on from that now? Was that VST3?

What's also interesting to me is that Overture does work with VST3...otherwise it couldn't work with VEPro:


VEPRO VST3.PNG


But if you try to load KONTAKT 7 in VEPro...you can't do it yet because "Kontakt 7 is VST3 only and VE Pro does not support VST3"...and yet Overture will work and load VST3. So guess it depends on what VST3...

hmph.png
I think there is some confusion. I think I do know some things now using trial and error, but I might be wrong. There are three different options it seems:

Sound Maps

Those are mappings that are distributed with the Overture installation. It contains mappings for a lot of instruments, including Kontakt Factory, Amadeus Symphony and so on. Those files are in C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Sound Maps\Plugin Devices. One file represents one sample library. Furthermore the state of the sample player as well as some additional settings (?) are saved in C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Sample Instruments for each instrument of the sample library.

The XML-File in Plugin Devices states the sample player's name and VST version. If those do not match the VST plugin in Overture, the Library panel remains empty (that's what happened to me with Kontakt Factory because I used the VST3 version, while the XML-File states VST2 as version).

Creating such a file yourself is incredible painful. But so far it seems to be the only option to get a sound map for VSL Prime.

User presets

Furthermore, there is an undocumented option of creating user presets. The XML-Format for that is different than the one used in the Sound Maps (C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Sound Maps\Plugin Device). You can do changes in the track inspector and save those changes in C:\Users\{user}\AppData\Roaming\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\User Presets. You do that by pressing Ctrl+right click on the library panel.

I think it is a kind of patch that is applied to your sound map. So if you load a user preset again, there is still a sound map in the background, but this sound map is "patched" by your user preset (so if you changed some settings in your sample player or changed an articulation to a different key switch, Overture will take those settings and ignore the ones in the sound map).

In the first screenshot I saved my "Kontakt Flute" using this approach.

Templates

I am aware of this approach, but I am not sure if it will help me. By the way: How do you create your own templates? Do you just create an Overture project and save the ovex-File in C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Templates?

As soon as I don't start from scratch, but import MusicXML or MIDI-Files, templates won't help me much. I would have to set everything manually in the instrument inspector (articulations, dynamics, key switches and so on).

Or did you refer to templates in VEPro? But even in this case, you have to set your key switches/articulations every time manually.
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by Dean K. »

Hi Florian,

I never delve into Sound Maps, User Presets...and/or even the templates I believe you are referring to. There is definitely a difference between what I mean by templates and I think what you are expecting...but yes I think you have it pretty much figured out for yourself...

To answer your question though...I have customized all my templates manually between Overture, VEPro, and my MIDI Controller...and yep...it took some time...but now I have tons of templates I continue to build off of that I can just load up and get to work with.
FlorianP wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:34 pm In the first screenshot I saved my "Kontakt Flute" using this approach.
Yes, I'm curious if you ever did anything with it? Or if you were you able to drag it onto the score? The library panel window allows us to grab a hold of tracks there (presumably presets as well?)....mouse click it and drag it onto your score from the panel...so I'm curious to confirm what happens when you did/do that?

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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Dean Krommydas wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:36 pm Hi Florian,

I never delve into Sound Maps, User Presets...and/or even the templates I believe you are referring to. There is definitely a difference between what I mean by templates and I think what you are expecting...but yes I think you have it pretty much figured out for yourself...

To answer your question though...I have customized all my templates manually between Overture, VEPro, and my MIDI Controller...and yep...it took some time...but now I have tons of templates I continue to build off of that I can just load up and get to work with.
FlorianP wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:34 pm In the first screenshot I saved my "Kontakt Flute" using this approach.
Yes, I'm curious if you ever did anything with it? Or if you were you able to drag it onto the score? The library panel window allows us to grab a hold of tracks there (presumably presets as well?)....mouse click it and drag it onto your score from the panel...so I'm curious to confirm what happens when you did/do that?
Okay, I am not sure I understand your workflow. Maybe I am doing it all wrong. What kind of templates are you referring to? How did you set them up? Currently, I am losing a lot of time with that process. So far I have only set up my mappings for my string instruments in VSL Prime and some things are not working as they should (for example switching to staccato works, but it does not change back, once there is a "normal" notehead -> The exact same settings work in Kontakt Factory Lib, but not in VSL).

Yes, you can drag it to the score then. I did that and planned to set up all my instruments as "user preset" originally.
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Those are the instruments I created so far using sound maps:
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by FlorianP »

Here is the soundmap XML I made so far (some things are not working like the staccato stuff as stated previously) and the Violin 1 sample instrument (which I had to put under C:\ProgramData\Sonic Scores\Overture 5\Sample Instruments\Vienna Synchron Player\VSL Prime\Orchestral\Strings).
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Re: Library Panel / Only "General MIDI" available

Post by Dean K. »

FlorianP wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:53 pm Okay, I am not sure I understand your workflow. Maybe I am doing it all wrong. What kind of templates are you referring to? How did you set them up?
No, I don't think you're doing it wrong...unless you are losing all the presets you spend time creating? I'm really not the guy to be telling you about presets and such though...but you do seem to be on the right track.

My main writing workflow is a VEPro "server" setup with multiple computers. It uses MIDI and Network Audio. So let's say in a 3-system setup...

VEPro would be hosting instruments/libraries that I choose on 2 of my computers... where channels, ports, and outputs are configured to match up with Overture and Overture is on a third computer by itself. In Overture, you configure the VEPro (VST3) server plugin to all your tracks which allows for the MIDI and audio to communicate between all the systems over the network. CCs...are assigned between my controller (knobs, faders, etc) and all the instruments within VEPro (and multis)...but are programmed and respond to everything I may do within Overture's DATA view. If I want more control/detail/stability with CCs, I can export the MIDI file to another DAW (Logic, Cubase, etc.) and connect to my VEPro templates from there.

But I save everything that has been loaded and configured as a template...and return to them to work with and build off of.

Another example...say I have a String and Piano template I've created....it might have 50 string tracks from various string libraries some with key switches loaded and 15 different pianos. I spent the time manually doing all that. Now I just load that up... and go. Say I buy a new string library and I want to add it to this existing String and Piano template...I have to adjust and update the template manually...same goes for the pianos. Not too big a deal though because most of the work has been done.

Anyhow that's how I write with Overture..and the types of templates I am talking about. Mixing and production is a different animal that I perform in another DAW. As far as I know, there are a lot of people who like working as you do...I think you've got it pretty well figured out too...but maybe others who are familiar with this process will chime in and offer you more than I can...if you even need it by then!

Be well,
~Dean

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