Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

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DrLeonard
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Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

In the piece I am composing, I have Violins II samples set for both the first violin and second violin tracks (on channel 4). However, I want to use two different violin choices from ASO so I can have the two tracks using different samples. How do I add another sample to the existing set of instruments? (Whenever I think I have accomplished this I find that the second violin track reverts to the same samples as the first violins.)
The problem I am hoping to solve by doing this is that the first violins are supposed to be playing slurs while the second violins are staccato -- but after a phrase or two the first violins are playing staccato also, although marked with slurs (and the slurs are set for "sustains" at both beginning and note end). I thought if I made the two violin parts different samples I could avoid this, but somehow I can't change the second violins to the Violins I samples. (I know this sounds backwards, but I started the piece using Violins II for the first violins so my option for the second violins would be Violins I.)
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

Well, I think I got it figured out. I somehow had two instruments in the second violin track. Once I eliminated the one that was the same as the first violins, the two tracks articulate as marked. (BTW I changed the instruments so that first violins are Violins I and second violins are Violins II -- makes things a little more logical!)
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

I thought I had it figured out, but then I discovered I was still seeing the same instrument on both tracks. The same happened with the clarinets -- when I chose the bass clarinet for its track, the Bb clarinet also became the bass clarinet -- and vice versa. To fix the problem I had to load new instruments, not "existing instrument," because the instrument I wanted wasn't on the list. So did I start other instances of Kontakt when I did that? And where do I go in Kontakt to see what each instance is running? I am trying to reduce the number of instances of Kontakt to see if that affects the playback "stuttering" problem.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Bill Reed »

Look at Don's video in the post above this Sharing and track Plugin
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Merv »

Load your second violin (or first violin) part in Kontakt and assign a second channel. Make sure that you are switched to Voice 2 or Voice 1 depending on the channel you are using. There is absolutely no reason why this won’t work.

Jumbled channels and voices as well as forgetting to load the necessary instruments in Kontakt are probably causing you grief. Why not just start from scratch and reload your instruments in the appropriate instance, assign channels and voices and make sure that showing symbols in color is selected. Also make sure that your keyswitch settings are correctly set for each channel.

To see the totality of what’s happening in Kontakt just open all instances, then minimize the instrument header and reduce all the Kontakt window sizes and appropriately layer them. If you placed all your woodwinds in one instance of Kontakt you will only need to open that one instance. You can then watch all your output signal levels in your assigned woodwinds to confirm which instruments are currently playing.

If Mr. Reed’s suggestion (posted above) won’t work for you, or my somewhat terse suggestions offered in this post won’t work for you why not post the file to the forum where others can offer a solution, or even privately by PM where I will fix it for you, or, alternately, walk you through it by telephone conversation. I, like you, am retired and have nothing pressing so it would be no trouble at all to help a fellow Overturite or Overturan or ???.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

Merv wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:31 pm Why not just start from scratch and reload your instruments in the appropriate instance
Every time I load a new instrument I have to go through the entire score and check the dynamics to make sure they're on Controller 7 - (Optional) Volume, which seems to work better for me than 001- (Volume) Mod Wheel, since I don't use a music keyboard. (Or do I misunderstand what that means?) So I would like to save myself more work!
Merv wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:31 pm Also make sure that your keyswitch settings are correctly set for each channel.
I am not sure what that means. I have been setting keyswitches for things like slurs or staccato dots, but I don't know how that relates to a channel (so everything is "None"). Can you explain?
Merv wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:31 pm To see the totality of what’s happening in Kontakt just open all instances
I haven't figured out how to do that. I have not fiddled with Kontakt much until this thread, and I don't know what screen I should be looking at to see the instances of Kontakt that apply to a specific piece of music. Where do I go, and what do I click on, to see that information?
Sorry to be so ignorant, and I really appreciate that others more experienced with this software are willing to help.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Merv »

If your clarinet track contains 2 channels with Channel 1 being your Clarinet 1 (Voice 1) and Channel 2 being your Clarinet 2 (Voice 2) you could change to either Voice 1 or Voice 2 depending on which instrument is going to play the slur or the staccato. This will ensure that your articulation is going to play only on that voice. What I was referring to with keyswitch settings is that your articulations and expressions should have all of the corresponding keyswitch and midi settings properly set for each instrument – clarinets in this case. There are many settings that can cause confusion and it takes a little while to get a good handle on them. In addition, you may prefer to have subtle differences in the way each clarinet handles its articulations (for realism) – this should be set beforehand.

The best way to illustrate this is by including an .ovex example which I have done.

Once loaded you can then Solo Voice 1 then solo Voice 2 to hear each clarinet separately. Open your Kontakt window and notice that I have both clarinets loaded. Clarinet 1 is assigned Channel 1 and Clarinet 2 is assigned Channel 2

To get your Kontakt window to show up so that you can watch your instruments play and watch them properly respond to the various keyswitches just right click a track with your mouse then go to the bottom entry where it says ‘Show Track’s Instrument’. That track’s instance will pop up and will contain just that instrument or if you are sharing other instruments with that same instance they will also be included in that instance. I usually put all woodwinds in one instance of Kontakt then make a ‘Track Set’ so that only the woodwind section will display for proofing, etc.

As far as having to reset your dynamics every time you load an instrument, I would suggest you save entering dynamics and other ‘touchy-feely’ things until you’ve completed note entry. I always make sure that I have all my instruments properly loaded and configured first. I then get the melody and rhythms and chordal structures cemented down. I only then work on dynamics, etc. and finally I will do a pleasing layout and formatting of the score. If I’m using a template or even a preset most of this work is already done, but often I start from a raw musical idea and I usually have no idea in what direction I will end up going creation wise. Once I have a musical outline established, I follow the above steps. While you may not choose to work that way with Overture, I find that following these steps when working with Overture makes for effortless and mostly trouble-free and enjoyable composing.

If I can make a final suggestion, it may be easier for you to sketch out your musical ideas using only GM instead of ASO. After you’ve got everything the way you want it you can then load your ASO instruments into your score. Almost nothing will change and when revisiting your score to work on it GM instruments certainly load way faster than ASO instruments through Kontakt. It’s what I sometimes do.

I hope this information helps you in some small way, Mr. Leonard.
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DrLeonard
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

Merv, thanks again for those helpful suggestions.
Merv wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:21 am If your clarinet track contains 2 channels with Channel 1 being your Clarinet 1 (Voice 1) and Channel 2 being your Clarinet 2 (Voice 2) you could change to either Voice 1 or Voice 2 depending on which instrument is going to play the slur or the staccato
My issue was not between clarinets I and II, but between Bb Clarinet and Bass Clarinet, which somehow got linked so that if I changed the instrument on one track it changed the other track to that new instrument also. But I think I have got that cleared up. I had the same problem with Violins I and II but I think I have fixed that.
Merv wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:21 am To get your Kontakt window to show up so that you can watch your instruments play and watch them properly respond to the various keyswitches just right click a track with your mouse then go to the bottom entry where it says ‘Show Track’s Instrument’.
I have been using that feature regularly to make sure of my instruments, or to specify a channel (along with specifying the same channel in Overture). What I was asking about is: where do I go to view all the different instruments that are in a particular instance of Kontakt? I don't know how to bring up that display. (I have at least four instances running, but I may have created additional ones inadvertently.)
DrLeonard wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:51 pm If I can make a final suggestion, it may be easier for you to sketch out your musical ideas using only GM instead of ASO.
Yes, it would be easier on a simple piece. In the piece I am composing now (for symphony orchestra) it is important to hear the realistic instrumental samples from ASO for the right combination or blend (timbre and dynamics) as I compose. That's why the Play feature needs to work properly and why I have been trying to fix the "stuttering" or "crackling" in this piece (see my other thread about that). I am not the genius Mozart was who could compose in his head while riding in a stagecoach to his next premier performance so the ink was still wet on the parts when the symphony was performed! I am not even a keyboard player who can compose at the keyboard, or use keyboard input into Overture. I am just a dilettante trying to put together a symphonic work for my own satisfaction, using my PC and its software.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Merv »

Ha, ha! Good Mozart analogy!

When you open an instance of Kontakt, all instruments loaded into that instance show up. If you have only one instrument showing, then you need to populate that instance with more instruments.

Your work style is perfectly fine, and I completely understand your needs and preferences. In my ‘minds eye’ I know the sound I want and am going for, and I know that I can achieve it later using different libraries and techniques. So for me at least, it’s not an issue to enter large scores using GM and then making the switch after the hard work is done. My problem is my computer specs – opening these large scores takes an unsatisfactorily long time even with my SSD. I sometimes open these large scores several times a day as I tinker and play about, and the loading wait times becomes super annoying.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

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Merv wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:41 pm When you open an instance of Kontakt, all instruments loaded into that instance show up.
That was not happening. I had originally thought I had created the winds as one instance (starting with Flute and adding Piccolo, Oboe, etc.) but when I opened the Flute Kontakt window with "Show Track's Instrument" only the Flute showed up. I tried to re-add those instruments, starting with the Piccolo and Oboe, from the Flute Kontakt interface but when I did that I was getting Piccolo and Oboe sound on the Flute track, no sound on the Oboe track.
Could you (or someone) outline the steps to take to create multiple instruments in one instance of Kontakt?
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Dean Krommydas »

Hi Dr. Leonard,

I am going to assume the post I had in the other thread, unfortunately, wasn't helpful or thorough enough...but I am going to repost it here where some blanks could be filled in and mention the following...

Start fresh. So if you have not been doing so already - strip the project/score down so that nothing is loaded (in terms of instruments or KONTAKT instances) or as Merv mentioned - could just be GM - and then begin adding your instances of KONTAKT, starting with one instance for the WINDS. Then add each instrument one at a time into that instance of KONTAKT, with the proper channel in KONTAKT matching the proper channel in OVERTURE (track inspector). If you are using more than one voice on a single track, and you want a different instrument/sample to play on that other voice - then you must load the next instrument into KONTAKT (which will have a new channel) and be sure to match that new channel on the second voice, or third or 4th voice etc. that you want to use within Overture (track inspector). You can have hypothetically up to 8 different voices/instruments on any given track/staff, which would mean each of those voices need a separate channel to be heard. Just take your time, playback one instrument at a time until you are certain everything is clicking. I'm not going to get into keyswitching for sake of simplicity at the moment and I'm also not familiar with ASO and what it has in this regard for you. Check out those videos as well that I and Bill mentioned helping aid further familiarity even if it is not exactly how you may be approaching things.
Dean Krommydas wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pm
For setting up instances...starting from the top of your score...say to yourself I'm going to load one instance of KONTAKT (One Software Instrument) for my wind instruments and I'm going to share that same instance (Existing instrument) on all my wind tracks. Then I'm going to load another instance of KONTAKT (Another Software Instrument) for my brass and share that same instance (Existing Instrument) for my brass instruments...and so on.

Because your score is basically already done...you can...

1. Right-click on the Flute Track > Choose Track's Instrument > Software Instrument > KONTAKT (load your Flute sample - and check to make sure your channels match up in Overture and KONTAKT to get sound - channels 1)

2. Go to the next track, right-click PIccolo Track > Choose Track's Instrument > this time Existing Instrument > and select from the drop-down the existing instance of KONTAKT you just chose for the flute. The KONTAKT instance you loaded for the flute is now shared on the Piccolo Track. You then load your piccolo sample and make sure your channels match up between Overture and KONTAKT (channels 2).

You continue down this way on each wind track > choosing instrument > existing instrument like in step 2 and sharing it, checking your channels - until you're done with your wind instruments.

3. Now you want a new/separate instance of KONTAKT for your Brass...so you start fresh. Right-click on French Horn > Choose Track's Instrument > Software Instrument > KONTAKT (load your French Horn sample).

4. Go to the next track. right-click Trumpet > Choose Track's Instrument > this time again Existing Instrument > and select from the drop-down the 2nd existing instance of KONTAKT you just chose for the French Horns (not the Flute/Winds instance).

You continue the same pattern and start again once you reach your percussion and then for your strings.

IN the end, giving you 4 separate instances (existing instruments) for each section of the orchestra...

I'd do a video or screenshots but my setup is completely different and will only complicate it. Check out Don and Rob's video if you haven't or if it helps along the way:

http://www.sonicscores.com/ovetemp/Exis ... rument.mp4

http://www.robertosoggetti.com/LoadingInstr.mp4

~Dean
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

Okay, I made a "test" version of my piece to try out Dean's instructions.
(1) I removed all instruments by going to each track's "Show Track's Instrument" and clicking off the "X" in the upper right of the instrument panel.
(2) Then I went to the Flute track and chose "Software Instrument/Woodwinds/Woodwinds Solo/Flute I."
(3) Then I went to the Piccolo track and chose "Existing Instrument/Flute I" from the dropdown.
(4) When that dropdown closes, what do I do?
(a) Do I choose "Piccolo" from "Software Instrument/Woodwinds Solo/Piccolo" -- which loads the Piccolo, but is it the same instance of Kontakt as the Flute track? In the Flute "Show Track's Instrument" Kontakt screen I am only seeing the Flute on the left side although supposedly I loaded the Piccolo into the same instance. Or am I supposed to look somewhere else for the instruments loaded into a particular instance of Kontakt?
(b) Or do I select the Piccolo from somewhere else? Was I supposed to go back to the Flute track and load the Piccolo from the "Instruments" list on the left side, giving me two instruments in the Flute track (which would be different voices, which I don't want?) That doesn't seem right.
I am missing something somewhere. It would be helpful to see a step-by-step checklist of how to load an instrument into an existing instrument's instance of Kontakt, describing the progress through each screen and dropdown.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Dean Krommydas »

Hi Dr. Leonard,

Sorry to post and run but I'll try to return again later unless someone else jumps in.

Briefly, what you seem to be missing is how to load samples/instruments into KONTAKT.

When you bring KONTAKT up it has a file navigation pane on the left. As we tried to confirm in the other post your instruments/samples from ASO should be located on your SSD Drive (C).

So within KONTAKT - you use KONTAKT's navigation panel - to find the folder where your samples/instruments are located and you load the instrument from there into it. You may have to expand the folder (click the plus). YOu can drag the files over manually from left to right or double-click them. Once you load an instrument KONTAKT will automatically assign channel numbers consecutively, and you proceed to match them within Overture's inspector panel (you can also adjust them in KONTAKT if needs be).
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by DrLeonard »

Thanks, I went and opened Kontakt and found the Amadeus instrument samples in my SSD, per your image. But I wasn't opening Kontakt from within Overture and my current composition, so how can I load the instruments to an instance of Kontakt as applicable to this particular piece of music? (Other pieces would have different instrumentation.) Where would I drag the instruments to from the screen you imaged? I am sorry to be such a bother about this.
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Re: Adding Another Instrument to Instance of Kontakt

Post by Dean Krommydas »

NO worries!

So starting fresh with your existing score in Overture...let's just take the first step.

Right-click on the Flute Track and click Choose Track's Instrument. Then click the Software Instrument tab. From there you should have a drop-down offering you to select KONTAKT. Select it. If you don't have that option then there's a problem.

Assuming you were able to do it, you can then right-click on the same flute track again but this time select SHOW TRACK'S INSTRUMENT. It should then show you the empty instance of KONTAKT you just loaded. (This would also be how you can check if you have a bunch of KONTAKT instances on all your individual tracks/staffs that you were not aware if you loaded or not).

Sticking with the first flute track though...you right-click and show the instrument on it - use KONTAKT's File navigation to locate ASO on the SSD - and either double click the flute sample of your choice...or you can drag it from the navigation pane over to the blank area on the right - all within KONTAKT, and it will automatically assign it a Channel within KONTAKT.

If you can get that far...that's the majority of the battle...then you open the inspector panel in Overture for the flute track - and verify the channels match that of what is within KONTAKT. i.e. Channel 1 in KONTAKT matching to Channel 1 in Overture. Then you can return to some of the other points and steps I have mentioned.

Again sorry to post and run...good luck!
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