[Solved]Transpose function- Dimished second interval

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TenorAlan
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[Solved]Transpose function- Dimished second interval

Post by TenorAlan »

Observed on Overture 5.6.3-3/Windows 7

It seems that when using the Transpose function, if (for chromatic transposition) the interval Diminished Second is selected, the transposition performed is 1 semitone, whereas I believe Diminished Second should perform a one-step, 0 semitone transposition (as from C to Dbb, or B# to C).

A transposition of 1 semitone should be performed for the intervals Minor Second or Augmented Unison. Indeed those both perform a transposition of 1 semitone. The transposition performed for the interval Diminished Second is the same as that performed for the interval Minor Second.

Finally, a reminder that I think it would be useful for the list of chromatic transposition intervals to state next to each entry the interval in semitones.

Alan
PeteFine
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Re: Transpose function- Dimished second interval

Post by PeteFine »

From a transpositional standpoint, a diminished second and minor second are two ways of saying the same thing same. They are redundant and serve no purpose in the end result. A B# or C or D double flat, raised a minor second, will give you a C# no matter what you call it. Whether it notates as a C# or Db should be governed by the key signature. The Chromatic Transpose menu could be simplified and it would accomplish the same result.
TenorAlan
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Re: Transpose function- Dimished second interval

Post by TenorAlan »

Hi, Pete,
PeteFine wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:43 pm From a transpositional standpoint, a diminished second and minor second are two ways of saying the same thing same.
Not so. Transposition by a diminished second does not change the pitch at all, while transposition by a minor second changes the pitch by one semitone.

A minor second and an augmented unison are the same interval in semitones, though (1). A major second and a diminished third are the same interval in semitones (2).

A diminished interval is always one semitone less than the similarly-numbered minor interval (if that exists), or one semitone less than the similarly-numbered perfect interval (if that exists). That's why it is called "diminished".

Best regards,

Alan
PeteFine
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Re: Transpose function- Dimished second interval

Post by PeteFine »

I now see what you meant. Yes, we don't refer to the "perfect" intervals, (4th, 5th, octave or unison) lowered by a semitone as "minor". This is one of those very peculiar things about our music system that is overly complex, because in reality a diminished 4th sounds as a 3rd and an augmented unison sounds as a minor 2nd. (Why not, for example call a diminished 5th a "minor" fifth?) But we are stuck with it.

"Transposition by a diminished second does not change the pitch at all"... see what I mean? How can something that does not change the pitch be referred to as "transposition"? :roll:

In any case, when trying to accomplish a chromatic transposition via a notation program, maybe it would be sufficient to just indicate the number of steps (semitones). This is how Overture does it in the track inspector Settings/Transposition menu.
TenorAlan
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Re: Transpose function- Dimished second interval

Post by TenorAlan »

Hi, Pete,
PeteFine wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:17 am I now see what you meant. Yes, we don't refer to the "perfect" intervals, (4th, 5th, octave or unison) lowered by a semitone as "minor". This is one of those very peculiar things about our music system that is overly complex, because in reality a diminished 4th sounds as a 3rd and an augmented unison sounds as a minor 2nd. (Why not, for example call a diminished 5th a "minor" fifth?) But we are stuck with it.

Yes, and my musical background is so feeble that when I get involved with these matters I have to keep a "cheat sheet" on my desk. I think it is "authentic".
"Transposition by a diminished second does not change the pitch at all"... see what I mean? How can something that does not change the pitch be referred to as "transposition"? :roll:
Well, it's like zero being a number, I guess. It took a long time for our species to get used to that!
In any case, when trying to accomplish a chromatic transposition via a notation program, maybe it would be sufficient to just indicate the number of steps (semitones). This is how Overture does it in the track inspector Settings/Transposition menu.
That of course suits me much better!

Thanks.

Best regards,

Alan
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